The Inspection Reports commented on the "unsatisfactory" split site of the
School. We are pleased that Fife Council is now working to rectify this
situation. As of late 2009 Fife Council is planning for a single-site
school on the north-west corner of St Andrews, close to the University's Sports
Centre. The indicative date of opening is 2013.
Update late 2010 - indicative opening date now moved to Spring 2014.
Update August 2011 - The site noted above is ruled out. With need
to choose new site and consult, now hoping for 2015 opening.
12 January 2012 - Consultation Meeting
A consultation meeting was held in the Kilrymont Road site chaired by the
Executive Director of Education in Fife. The following brief notes are
provided by a parent, and are not an official account.
Around 80 people were in the audience. The architects gave a presentation
on what they saw as the problematic features of the current building, and how
their indicative proposals could remove these difficulties and produce a new
school building suitable for 1450 pupils. There was a re-affirmation that
the size of the Kilrymont Road site was sufficiently large to accommodate the
size of the school. Indicative floor plans showed some of the
possibilities for the new building. The space between the tall building and the
current technical workshops could be covered, and include an atrium, teaching
rooms, and a large lecture-style theatre. A new sports facility could be
part of this, with the existing facility being converted into fitness suites and
the like. The swimming pool would be refurbished. All of the
existing buildings would be stripped back to the concrete frame and rebuilt.
The building could be designed to allow all the pupils to eat lunch on site.
The aim was to produce a bus area that would allow buses to return by the route
that they had taken to the school.
The plans for the decant of pupils to South Street during building are being
worked upon, and an assurance was given that the consultation period would not
close until these plans were available.
A large number of comments and questions were addressed to those running the
meeting. The audience was assured that these would all be recorded and
would be taken into consideration.
1 December 2011 - meeting of Local Development Group
One parent has provided a summary of the meeting, and his/her much more positive
feelings about the refurbished/rebuilt Kilrymont-site school after the
presentation at the meeting.
1 December 2011 - Formal Consultation on the New Madras
Fife Council is now running a statutory consultation on the proposal to relocate
the entire school to the Kilrymont site.
The outcome of the statutory consultation about the earlier plans to move the
school to the Langlands site is now available
here.
10 November 2011 - Fife Council Meeting that decided the location of the New
Madras to be at Kilrymont.
Link to paper on this topic being presented to councillors.
Press release regarding decision on the New Madras site - which is to be a
refurbishment and rebuild at Kilrymont Road. The
press release includes the comments that the new School will keep "the
“pagoda- style” roofs and interior of the main hall area, and the façade of the
“utilitarian-style” block but with a complete re-build from the ground up of the
main teaching areas of the school. The façade and parts of the buildings which
remain would also be reclad, reglazed and re-insulated to bring them up to
modern building design standards. The parts of the building which remain would
be taken back to the girders and put back together again to meet the needs of a
modern school."
At a meeting of the Parent Council earlier in the week we were told that if the
Kilrymont option was chosen, all pupils in the School would be accommodated on
the South Street campus during the building works, using temporary classrooms on
the front and back car parks.
November 2011 - Fife Council now have a
web page for the New Madras
24 October - Public Meeting re outcome of Scoring Exercise
At this meeting officials told us of their scoring for the various sites, as per
the data shown in the "RESULTS".
Most sites had not changed score much from the previous evaluation, but the
Kilrymont Road "remodel and rebuild" had increased its score significantly, and
was on that basis the front runner. Doubt was expressed by officials over
the viability of the Station Park site due to perceived planning issues,
possible flooding risk, and cost of better quality exterior building finish
associated with the "gateway" location. Officials also expressed doubts
over any realistic possibility of winning a request to Historic Scotland or
Scottish Ministers to put a new-build on the Kilrymont Road site followed by
demolition of the existing buildings. A former senior member of the Madras
community, and others, expressed their reservations about a refurbishment of the
Kilrymont Road site. The officials declined to answer some questions about
the reasons for their scoring of different sites on different criteria.
Little was disclosed in terms of where hutted decant accommodation for this
option would be, or how much would need to be budgeted for this facility.
Two members of the audience spoke in favour of the plans they saw for the
refurbishment of the Kilrymont Road buildings.
An official showed some pictures and plans of what the a Refurbishment and
Rebuild could look like at Kilrymont Road. My sketch of his possible site
plan is shown here, though it was stressed that
this was just a first go at what things could happen, and I should note the
fallible nature of my sketching. (please see below for copies of slides received
on 26th October). The suggestion sees the car park between the
main classroom block, sports building, and technical building covered, and with
some rooms and an open atrium. In order to increase the
effectiveness of the existing classroom block one proposal had removing rooms on
the north side of the corridors and having realigned rooms on the other side.
The new more open space along the north side of the existing classroom block
could connect with a new atrium over the current mid-school car park and rooms
in there. There was promise of increased natural light and ventilation,
and more opportunity for passive surveillance of users of the building.
The existing south-facing metal-framed windows of the main classroom block
Historic Scotland would be willing to have replaced by modern double-glazing as
long as the grid work was maintained. Historic Scotland was reported to
wish to have the pagoda-style roofs, with all their existing problems of water
collection, retained, but was willing to have major internal alterations to the
main classroom block carried out, and to have the central car park built over.
The officials pointed out that while they would put forward their scoring and
reasons for this, it would be elected councillors who would take a decision
probably at the Education and Children's Services committee meeting on 10
November.
Fife Council
slides used in the presentation about the possible design for the Kilrymont
Road Refurbishment and new build. The following comments are provided by a
member of the audience, not the presenter. The first slide shows how the
design process is intended to happen. The second slide shows a possible
plan for the New Madras. I had used my sketch of this for the plan above.
The arrows on the plan show circulation routes, and include the possibility of
high-level bridges from the main teaching block to other parts of the site to
improve circulation. The photos show at the top four things that the
designers (and Historic Scotland) are keen to keep intact, including the pagoda
roofs and their view from both above and below. The lower two photos show
things that are wished to be improved, including more open and naturally lit
corridors, and better toilets. The third slide shows an artist's
impression of what the current main entrance of the school might become.
The photographs are of school building projects already undertaken by the firm
of architects that Fife Council is using. The fourth slide gives details
of the possible changes in the main teaching block. As noted above, the
removal of classrooms on one side of the building could result in open spaces
looking out over a new atrium, and wider use of transparent panels would allow
everyone to be seen at most times. The more open spaces in the remodelled
teaching block could be used as breakout spaces for teaching and learning.
The next slide has a sketch of the atrium that may be generated where the car
park is currently. This shows the possible high-level bridges from the
remodelled existing classroom block to the new build area. The upper
photos show atria in use elsewhere, and the lower pair show the relatively
confined open spaces in the current building. The final slide shows again
the breakout spaces in the existing teaching block, and the end of one of the
bridges across the atrium. The top phoots show similar ideas in use
elsewhere, and the lower two show aspects of the current building.
Fife Council
officials met on 7 October to "score" various options.
RESULTS <<<<<<<<<<<
There is a public meeting at the Kilrymont Road site of Madras about this on
Monday 24 October at 6.30 pm.
Fife Council had public meetings in Blyth Hall 4th October,
Kilrymont 5th October to discuss
New Madras Options
A summary of some of the comments is contained in the "RESULTS" link above.
Local Development Group Discusses Criteria for selection,
The recent meeting of the Local Development Group discussed
the criteria that would be used to select the site for the new Madras College.
In the discussion the criteria were ordered into levels of importance, they also
had a weighting and scaling factor applied to them The idea being that Officers
will apply a score to each criteria for each site and thus the best site would
appear from the scoring.
The engagement meetings next week will present these
criteria to the audience and ask for comments on the criteria and the factors
used.
Some members of the meeting did not agree with the process
and also felt misled by the invitation but the process went ahead anyway.
The criteria are:
|
CRITERIA |
FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED
|
|
Education Impact |
How does the site impact on
the delivery of high quality Education:
Does it support the BIG 8 priority of improved Educational Attainment and
Achievement for All?
Ability or otherwise to deliver the Curriculum for Excellence?
Short term effects of relocation/decant? |
|
Community Impact |
How does the site impact on
the delivery of high quality Community Use:
Does it support the BIG 8
priority of improving Sport, Leisure & Cultural Opportunities? |
|
Deliverability |
Are there any factors that
would affect the timely delivery of a School with regard to:
Build-ability?
Cost? |
|
Site Ownership |
Is the site owned by Fife
Council? If not would there be any legal difficulty in acquiring all or part
of the site and how would this impact on: Time?
Cost? |
|
Planning Constraints |
Any known contradiction
with the St Andrews LP, St Andrews & East Fife LP and the Tay Coast Local
Plan:
Would a School development
be supported by Planning and would there be any impact on programme? |
|
Transport Issues |
Does the site have any
issues with:
Existing traffic network arrangements?
Proposed traffic network arrangements?
Safer routes to School policy? |
|
Site Topography |
Does the site cause any
difficulty in terms:
Levels?
Steep slopes?
Accessibility? |
|
Site Area/Shape |
Is the development of the
site restricted by:
Shape?
Area/Size? |
|
Environment & Existing
Services |
Is the site adversely
affected by:
Noise levels?
Prevailing weather conditions?
Coastal location?
Availability of utilities?
Flooding? |
|
Economic Impact |
Would there be any
medium/long-term Economic Impact, for example:
Would the development support or discourage economic growth in any way?
Loss or creation of employment land or opportunities? |
Madras publishes
site evaluation document
Meeting with Fife Council Officials and Senior Councillors on 7th September
Parents/carers of pupils at Madras and its feeder primary schools were invited to
a meeting in the Assembly Hall of the Kilrymont Road school buildings.
Senior members of Fife Council reported on the way forward given the recent
news that the Langlands site is no longer a possibility for the new school
buildings. Fife Council will update their original evaluations of the
various considered sites, and will make this information available to
parents/carers. They hope to have taken a decision by November Those
present were assured that the finance remained safe, and that Fife Council
remains determined to build a first-class single-site secondary school in St
Andrews as soon as possible. It may be possible to use money from the sale
of the South St site to assist with inflation etc. Maintenance of the
existing buildings will be funded. It looks as though the most likely
option is a refurbishment and extension of the Kilrymont Road building.
Fife Council have not been able to get Historic Scotland to de-list the current
building. The earliest possible entry date is now looking like summer 2015.
Langlands site for the New Madras Ruled Out 30 August 2011
On the 29 August parents learnt from the Rector that the Langlands site for
the New Madras was no longer a possibility. The intention is that Fife
Council will now look at where else the New Madras may be built. A leading
contender may be the Kilrymont Road site. Parents are to be invited to a
meeting on 7 September to discuss the way forward.
St Andrews Citizen Comments on New Madras Negotiations - 29 April
2011
The local paper comments that Fife Council has agreed in principle aspects of
the proposed new school, and that negotiations with the University of St Andrews
continue.
News item on Fife Today website
Ongoing Council – University Negotiations are Welcomed - 15 April 2011
John Barnett, Chairman of Madras College Parent Council, has welcomed the news
that negotiations between the Council and the University on a new school
building at the North Haugh are progressing.
He said, “Whilst parents are understandably a little disappointed that final
agreement between the parties has not been achieved at this week’s meeting, I am
pleased that detailed discussions on a final settlement are continuing with a
view to reconciling the outstanding issues within a short timetable.”
“Everyone understands that in order to fulfil the expectation of a spring
2014 opening date for the new Madras College, agreement between the parties on
the co-located site is the critical first step prior to the subsequent stages of
detailed design, planning, approval and eventual completion of the project.”
“I have always recognised that negotiations on such a significant
collaborative project would not be simple, and we have been patient in our
understanding of the difficulties faced by the parties. This whole process has
produced a considerable momentum and expectation that a successful outcome will
ultimately be produced. Today, in view of the evident goodwill demonstrated by
the University and the Council to deliver on this important initiative of value
to all the people of St Andrews and the surrounding community, I remain
optimistic that we will see a positive outcome before too long.”
22.2.11 Parents Urge Faster Progress on New Madras
College
The following comments from the Chair of the Parent
Council were published in the Courier Newspaper in February:-
"Parents are
becoming increasingly concerned about the slow progress being made towards
delivering a new building for Madras College” says John Barnett, chairman of the
Parent Council.
"In order for the
timetable of a spring 2014 opening to be achieved, I would have expected there
to have been agreement by now on the exact location of the new single site. The
continuing delay and absence of any information on the status of the
negotiations is causing some anxiety and speculation among parents and others in
the community.
Whilst I understand that
important and sensitive issues relating to the proposed site must be properly
discussed and agreed between Fife Council and the University of St Andrews, the
negotiating process is taking far longer than many people had anticipated.
The statutory public
consultation has now been concluded and a report on the outcome is expected
imminently from HMIe. I would be very surprised if the published result
reflected anything less than a large majority in favour of the proposal to build
the new single-site school on the suggested site on the North Haugh on land
owned by the University. There exists a high level of expectation among parents
and children throughout the Madras College catchment area that the detailed
planning for the new school on that single site should commence soon.
Co-location on the University campus has the added advantage of facilitating the
development of closer academic and educational links between the two
institutions.
In the meantime, although I am
pleased that the toilet facilities are to be improved, both existing school
premises continue to deteriorate. Teachers having to travel between the two
sites results in significantly reduced pupil contact time. These negative
factors are to the continued detriment of the educational provision offered to
local children, as successive HMIe reports have made clear.”
On behalf of the parents and
pupils of Madras College, I have therefore called upon the negotiating teams of
the University and Fife Council to move towards reaching final agreement on the
favoured North Haugh site as soon as possible. With the goodwill that I know
exists on both sides, I have no doubt that agreement can be reached in the near
future on how this exciting and unique project can be achieved in the best
interests of all the stakeholders.
I would hope to be able to
offer some encouraging news to the parents and teachers at the next meeting of
the Parent Council on 9 March when a report on the current status of this
project will be presented.”
Consultation on
the New Madras, 15 December 2010
Interested people are invited to read the
consultation
paper on the proposed New Madras and to respond to the consultation by
clicking
here.
The Parent Council has put in its
response.
Local
Development Group Meeting 2 November 2010
It was reported that a team of architects has been appointed, and a timetable
for planning and similar consultations has been outlined.
Minutes.
Open Meeting 23
September 2010
The Rector sends a
letter to parents outlining the current state of planning, and noting the
planned date of entry moving to Spring 2014.
Parent Council AGM September 2010
The Rector gave an update to parents, as can be seen in the
draft minutes of the AGM.
Open Meeting 8
March 2010
The Rector presented to
the meeting the "story so far", and highlighted the various advantages to be had
with the proposed site on the North Haugh with access off the A91. The
text below is the webmaster's summary of the main points, and should not be
taken as the official record of the meeting.
The number of pupils expected over the next decade or so is estimated to be
between 1400 and 1500, though with a School designed to operate at 80% of
capacity that means that the School will be specified for 1700 pupil places
maximum. A split of the current school between St Andrews and the Tay
Bridgehead had been considered, but it was determined that the range of subjects
that could be taught in the smaller schools would be much less than currently
taught at Madras - the subjects that would have been at risk are shown in red in
the slides that can be accessed via the link below. The range of extra-curricular activities would also be
affected. A public meeting in the Bridgehead area about this was in favour
of the single school solution.
When looking for a site for the New Madras in St Andrews various sites were
considered. The slides below show first a possible site next to the A91,
then the Langlands A site that is up the escarpment, then the preferred
Langlands B site, which is immediately adjacent to the University's Sports Centre.
The University Sports Centre would be expanded and upgraded if these proposals
go ahead, with the possibility of a direct link between the two buildings. There is up to £50 million to build the New Madras, with up
to £40 million to come from the Council and £10 million from the University's
part. A business case for the new school should be taken to the Education
and Children's Services committee on 8 April 2010. There should then be
wide consultation in May 2010, followed by planning applications. The hope
is that construction should start in June 2011 for delivery of the building in
2013. The University and the school and Council are working closely
together. The University would provide the space near their sports centre
and would gain the 1833 part of the school's South St building. The
Council would retain the southern part of the South St site, as well a the Kilrymont Road site. Although the school and University would have an
agreement on shared use of sports and other facilities near the new school,
Station Park playing fields would be retained.
Mr Jones then fielded many questions from the audience. His
presentation and answers appeared to be well received by those present. In
answers to questions he noted amongst other things the following:-
- the intention was still to use Station Park playing fields for sports to
some extent
- the internal design of the School was to be developed in consultation with
pupils, with Mr Jones favouring the sort of construction seen at Corby City
Academy
Corby
Business Academy
- amongst designs being considered was the possibility of three wings to fit
in with the three school houses. It may be than many classrooms will
have glazed walls between them and wider corridors with breakout spaces.
Some classrooms may have moveable acoustic walls to permit more flexible use
of space. The arts section may be open plan.
- there could still be separation between pupil and student use of shared
facilities
- the country's financial issues were not expected to affect the capital
spend by Fife Council on the New Madras.
- the building of the New Madras is not linked to proposals for a western
expansion of St Andrews.
Update Document
from Fife Council - Public Meeting
St Andrews Community Council Meeting Feb 2010
Link to minutes from this meeting, which included a presentation and
discussion with Mr A Paul and Mr J McLaughlin of Fife Council about the New
Madras.
26 January 2010 -
Local Development Group Meeting
December 2009 updates
December statement from Fife Council to interested parties updating us on
the current state of the proposals.
Fife Council has now issued a press release about an agreement with the
University of St Andrews about the way in which a New Madras should be built to
the West of the University's Sports Centre. An associated framework of
items to be agreed between the University and the Council was published for the
3 December meeting of Fife Council's Policy, Finance, and Asset Management
Committee.
A number of important aspects of the proposed New Madras were discussed at
the Fife Council Policy, Finance, and Asset Management Committee on 3 December:-
Education and Children's Services Committee
of 12th November, 2009
This looks like the big meeting for decisions on the New Madras.
We understand that a New Madras on a site to the West of the University's
Sports Centre is now the proposed way forward.
Madras College Progress Update
The local stakeholders' group asked that an overview briefing document
should be put together by Education Services since many parents in the area were
unaware of even the most basic facts about site options.
Overview document from Fife Council, 26 October 2009
Parent Forum AGM
The Chair's presentation included a
summary of recent history of the discussions about the New Madras. The
meeting was told that Fife Council were considering the two options that
were left, which are
i) A refurbishment and extension of the Kilrymont Site Building
ii) A new build School in collaboration with the University near the University
Sports Centre
The meeting of about 60 people voted to show their preference. Every vote
that was cast was for the new build school on the western edge of St Andrews
Stakeholders Group Meeting 15 September 2009 inc
Report of the Madras College Co-location Working Group
Courier Article on School Plans discussed at St Andrews Community Council
Letter from Outgoing Chiair of the Madras Parent Council
Courier Articles on Surprising Developments regarding selection of site for
the New Madras
Fife Council Design Brief
Design Brief from Fiife Council,
received by webmaster 21 August 2009
Memo from Fife Council 12 August 2009
"At the meeting of the Local Development Group held
on 4th August it was indicated that further information was required and it was
unlikely that a decision would made by the Education and Children's Services
Committee at its meeting of 20th August 2009 on whether to invest in a new build
school in St Andrews West or in the renewal and extension of Kilrymont. I am
writing to let you know that an update report will be considered by that
Committee on 20th August 2009.
It is considered that further site assessments and discussions should take
place in relation to the new build option before the business case is presented
to the Committee for a decision on which option to pursue and that in the
meantime both a new build school at a site in St Andrews West and the renewal
and extension of Kilrymont continue to be developed. In order to ensure delivery
of the school by June 2013, a report on the outcome of those further
investigations and discussions will be submitted to the Education and Children's
Services Committee at the meeting scheduled for 12th November 2009. In the
meantime it has been recommended that the Policy, Finance and Asset Management
Committee be asked at the meeting scheduled for 10th September, to approve
capital funding of a maximum of £40m to implement the project.
An update will be provided to the Group at the meeting scheduled for 15th
September.
Morag Wallace
Partnerships Manager
Corporate Asset Management Service
Fife Council"
Stakeholders Group Meeting 4
August 2009
Stakeholders Group Meeting 23 June 2009
Stakeholders Group Meeting 28 May 2009
Stakeholders Group Meeting and Parent Council Meeting 6 May 2009
Summary of minutes from our representative before the official draft minutes
(above) were distributed:-
The Rector reported that he and others had seen some new school buildings.
He was impressed with Corby Business Academy, with buildings that contained
useful features and which may have been built at a cost that could be met by the
Fife budget. He had also seen Thomas Deacon Academy, which was very
impressive, but which cost some £84 million, and so was outwith the budget for
the new Madras, which is around £30 million. Glass walls between rooms and
corridors looked interesting in the way that they allowed everyone to be in
better view. Good quality facilities encouraged people to look after them.
The standard of facilities for pupils should be every bit as good as for the
adults in the building.
Andy Primmer is the Parent Representative from our Parent Council on the
Stakeholder Group. He reported that Fife Council was currently evaluating
the business case for various different options for the new Madras.
Consultations had taken place with school staff and some pupils. A
swimming pool was not included in any option due to the large capital and
running costs. A possible future solution with a community use swimming
pool adjacent to the School may yet be an option. A further meeting of
stakeholders is to be held on 28 May. The final decision on the New Madras
is expected at the August meeting of the Education and Children's Services
Committee. Various briefing papers had been made available to the
Stakeholder Group at or after this meeting, and these are made available below
as pdf files.
Fife Council has provided web pages with information on the planning and design
process for the new schools.
Open Meeting 26 March 2009
Fife Council held an open meeting at the School on 26 March. The Council's
plans were presented, and attendees were able to ask questions of the Council's
representatives. At this meeting there was also an attempt to determine
who would be the representatives of the local community and feeder primary
parent councils on the stakeholders group. The Madras Parent Council is
represented on this Group by Andy Primmer, who may be contacted by parents of
Madras pupils at
andypr -at- clara.co.uk (real
people please replace -at- by @).
An initial assessment of possible sites for the single-site school should be
made by the end of April 2009. Current sites under consideration include
the Kilrymont Road and South Street sites, as well as new-build sites in the
town. Other items being considered should be decided upon by the end of
June. The target is for the relevant Fife Council committees to choose the
preferred site option at their August meeting. The aim is to start
construction in September 2010. The indicative price for the New Madras is
30 million pounds.
Some Relevant Minutes and Briefing Notes from Fife Council
