The Inspection Reports commented on the “unsatisfactory” split site of the School. We are pleased that Fife Council is now working to rectify this situation. As of late 2009 Fife Council is planning for a single-site school on the north-west corner of St Andrews, close to the University’s Sports Centre. The indicative date of opening is 2013.
Update late 2010 – indicative opening date now moved to Spring 2014.
Update August 2011 – The site noted above is ruled out. With need to choose new site and consult, now hoping for 2015 opening.
Update June 2012 – The new Fife Council suggests the earliest entry date to a New Madras is 2016.
3 October 2012 – New Options Under Discussion
Cllrs Poole and Riley and officials addressed a meeting with members of our Parent Council and the parent councils of local primary schools. The new administration has looked at various possible sites in and around St Andrews. They reported on sites that have been ruled out for various reasons, and noted the sites that are looking more hopeful. They report that they wish to choose the preferred site by the end of this calendar year, with the intention of formal consultation following soon after that. A final decision may happen in August/September 2013, and if all went well that could mean the new school opening for the start of the 2016-17 session.
There were comments and discussions on the various sites proposed, which I summarise as follows:-
Pipelands Site adjacent to the new St Andrews hospital – a preferred option, though there are planning issues, and it is the “wrong side” of town for busses from the Bridgehead area. The suggestion is the that the building would be in the corner nearest to the hospital and as far down the hill as possible, with playing fields beyond.
Petheram Bridge Car park – another options still being actively considered. This site would allow use of the Station Park playing fields for sports. There are planning issues, and cost/planning issues associated with providing alternative parking arrangements. The curiously shaped site may give rise for a need for a more compact school building. It is the “correct” side of town for busses, and is closer to the town centre than Pipelands.
Kilrymont Road – remodel and new build, or complete new build – The presenter commented that they think that there are better sites than this one. Transportation to Kilrymont is not good, and there are concerns about managing a decant during building works. This option is not yet completely ruled out, however.
South Street – the site is too small, there are transportation issues, and a decant would be problematic.
Station Park – there are considered to be major planning risks, and extra costs associated with the level of water table.
North Haugh (pond site) – There would be additional building costs associated with this site (water table), and it is thought likely that the price that the landowner is seeking would be higher than Fife Council could pay.
University playing fields and Langlands sites – no longer under consideration after the landowner withdrew from negotiations.
Craigtoun Road, Strathkinness High Road sites – poor links to town, not owned by Fife Council, higher costs.
Strathtyrum site – Poor links to town, higher building costs, landowner has indicated unwillingness to sell.
Craigtoun Park – All pupils would need to be bussed, higher cost of building.
Botanic Gardens – Not a realistic option.
14 June 2012
Cllr Poole addressed the Parent Council. There is still a commitment to a New Madras, the £40 million funding package is still there, Fife Council prefers a site on the western approaches to St Andrews, and a new consultation is starting.
8 April 2012
The formal consultation has been carried out and a report from that has recently been published (link below). Fife Council does not intend to act on this until after the local elections.
Fife Council Consultation Report
12 January 2012 – Consultation Meeting
A consultation meeting was held in the Kilrymont Road site chaired by the Executive Director of Education in Fife. The following brief notes are provided by a parent, and are not an official account.
Around 80 people were in the audience. The architects gave a presentation on what they saw as the problematic features of the current building, and how their indicative proposals could remove these difficulties and produce a new school building suitable for 1450 pupils. There was a re-affirmation that the size of the Kilrymont Road site was sufficiently large to accommodate the size of the school. Indicative floor plans showed some of the possibilities for the new building. The space between the tall building and the current technical workshops could be covered, and include an atrium, teaching rooms, and a large lecture-style theatre. A new sports facility could be part of this, with the existing facility being converted into fitness suites and the like. The swimming pool would be refurbished. All of the existing buildings would be stripped back to the concrete frame and rebuilt. The building could be designed to allow all the pupils to eat lunch on site. The aim was to produce a bus area that would allow buses to return by the route that they had taken to the school.
The plans for the decant of pupils to South Street during building are being worked upon, and an assurance was given that the consultation period would not close until these plans were available.
A large number of comments and questions were addressed to those running the meeting. The audience was assured that these would all be recorded and would be taken into consideration.
1 December 2011 – meeting of Local Development Group
One parent has provided a summary of the meeting, and his/her much more positive feelings about the refurbished/rebuilt Kilrymont-site school after the presentation at the meeting.
- Informal report from a parent on the building proposals
- Official Minutes
1 December 2011 – Formal Consultation on the New Madras
Fife Council is now running a statutory consultation on the proposal to relocate the entire school to the Kilrymont site.
The outcome of the statutory consultation about the earlier plans to move the school to the Langlands site is now available here.
10 November 2011 – Fife Council Meeting that decided the location of the New Madras to be at Kilrymont
Link to paper on this topic being presented to councillors.
Press release regarding decision on the New Madras site – which is to be a refurbishment and rebuild at Kilrymont Road. The press release includes the comments that the new School will keep “the “pagoda- style” roofs and interior of the main hall area, and the façade of the “utilitarian-style” block but with a complete re-build from the ground up of the main teaching areas of the school. The façade and parts of the buildings which remain would also be reclad, reglazed and re-insulated to bring them up to modern building design standards. The parts of the building which remain would be taken back to the girders and put back together again to meet the needs of a modern school.”
At a meeting of the Parent Council earlier in the week we were told that if the Kilrymont option was chosen, all pupils in the School would be accommodated on the South Street campus during the building works, using temporary classrooms on the front and back car parks.
24 October – Public Meeting re outcome of Scoring Exercise
At this meeting officials told us of their scoring for the various sites, as per the data shown in the “RESULTS“. Most sites had not changed score much from the previous evaluation, but the Kilrymont Road “remodel and rebuild” had increased its score significantly, and was on that basis the front runner. Doubt was expressed by officials over the viability of the Station Park site due to perceived planning issues, possible flooding risk, and cost of better quality exterior building finish associated with the “gateway” location. Officials also expressed doubts over any realistic possibility of winning a request to Historic Scotland or Scottish Ministers to put a new-build on the Kilrymont Road site followed by demolition of the existing buildings. A former senior member of the Madras community, and others, expressed their reservations about a refurbishment of the Kilrymont Road site. The officials declined to answer some questions about the reasons for their scoring of different sites on different criteria. Little was disclosed in terms of where hutted decant accommodation for this option would be, or how much would need to be budgeted for this facility. Two members of the audience spoke in favour of the plans they saw for the refurbishment of the Kilrymont Road buildings.
An official showed some pictures and plans of what the a Refurbishment and Rebuild could look like at Kilrymont Road. My sketch of his possible site plan is shown here, though it was stressed that this was just a first go at what things could happen, and I should note the fallible nature of my sketching. (please see below for copies of slides received on 26th October). The suggestion sees the car park between the main classroom block, sports building, and technical building covered, and with some rooms and an open atrium. In order to increase the effectiveness of the existing classroom block one proposal had removing rooms on the north side of the corridors and having realigned rooms on the other side. The new more open space along the north side of the existing classroom block could connect with a new atrium over the current mid-school car park and rooms in there. There was promise of increased natural light and ventilation, and more opportunity for passive surveillance of users of the building. The existing south-facing metal-framed windows of the main classroom block Historic Scotland would be willing to have replaced by modern double-glazing as long as the grid work was maintained. Historic Scotland was reported to wish to have the pagoda-style roofs, with all their existing problems of water collection, retained, but was willing to have major internal alterations to the main classroom block carried out, and to have the central car park built over.
The officials pointed out that while they would put forward their scoring and reasons for this, it would be elected councillors who would take a decision probably at the Education and Children’s Services committee meeting on 10 November.
Fife Council slides used in the presentation about the possible design for the Kilrymont Road Refurbishment and new build. The following comments are provided by a member of the audience, not the presenter. The first slide shows how the design process is intended to happen. The second slide shows a possible plan for the New Madras. I had used my sketch of this for the plan above. The arrows on the plan show circulation routes, and include the possibility of high-level bridges from the main teaching block to other parts of the site to improve circulation. The photos show at the top four things that the designers (and Historic Scotland) are keen to keep intact, including the pagoda roofs and their view from both above and below. The lower two photos show things that are wished to be improved, including more open and naturally lit corridors, and better toilets. The third slide shows an artist’s impression of what the current main entrance of the school might become. The photographs are of school building projects already undertaken by the firm of architects that Fife Council is using. The fourth slide gives details of the possible changes in the main teaching block. As noted above, the removal of classrooms on one side of the building could result in open spaces looking out over a new atrium, and wider use of transparent panels would allow everyone to be seen at most times. The more open spaces in the remodelled teaching block could be used as breakout spaces for teaching and learning. The next slide has a sketch of the atrium that may be generated where the car park is currently. This shows the possible high-level bridges from the remodelled existing classroom block to the new build area. The upper photos show atria in use elsewhere, and the lower pair show the relatively confined open spaces in the current building. The final slide shows again the breakout spaces in the existing teaching block, and the end of one of the bridges across the atrium. The top phoots show similar ideas in use elsewhere, and the lower two show aspects of the current building.
Fife Council officials met on 7 October to “score” various options. RESULTS <<<<<<<<<<<
There is a public meeting at the Kilrymont Road site of Madras about this on Monday 24 October at 6.30 pm.
Fife Council had public meetings in Blyth Hall 4th October, Kilrymont 5th October to discuss New Madras Options
A summary of some of the comments is contained in the “RESULTS” link above.
Local Development Group Discusses Criteria for Selection
The recent meeting of the Local Development Group discussed the criteria that would be used to select the site for the new Madras College. In the discussion the criteria were ordered into levels of importance, they also had a weighting and scaling factor applied to them The idea being that Officers will apply a score to each criteria for each site and thus the best site would appear from the scoring.
The engagement meetings next week will present these criteria to the audience and ask for comments on the criteria and the factors used.
Some members of the meeting did not agree with the process and also felt misled by the invitation but the process went ahead anyway.
The criteria are:
||FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED
||How does the site impact on the delivery of high quality Education:
Does it support the BIG 8 priority of improved Educational Attainment and Achievement for All?
Ability or otherwise to deliver the Curriculum for Excellence?
Short term effects of relocation/decant?
||How does the site impact on the delivery of high quality Community Use:Does it support the BIG 8 priority of improving Sport, Leisure & Cultural Opportunities?
||Are there any factors that would affect the timely delivery of a School with regard to:
||Is the site owned by Fife Council? If not would there be any legal difficulty in acquiring all or part of the site and how would this impact on: Time?
||Any known contradiction with the St Andrews LP, St Andrews & East Fife LP and the Tay Coast Local Plan:Would a School development be supported by Planning and would there be any impact on programme?
||Does the site have any issues with:
Existing traffic network arrangements?
Proposed traffic network arrangements?
Safer routes to School policy?
||Does the site cause any difficulty in terms:
||Is the development of the site restricted by:
|Environment & Existing Services
||Is the site adversely affected by:
Prevailing weather conditions?
Availability of utilities?
||Would there be any medium/long-term Economic Impact, for example:
Would the development support or discourage economic growth in any way?
Loss or creation of employment land or opportunities?
Madras publishes site evaluation document
Meeting with Fife Council Officials and Senior Councillors on 7th September
Parents/carers of pupils at Madras and its feeder primary schools were invited to a meeting in the Assembly Hall of the Kilrymont Road school buildings. Senior members of Fife Council reported on the way forward given the recent news that the Langlands site is no longer a possibility for the new school buildings. Fife Council will update their original evaluations of the various considered sites, and will make this information available to parents/carers. They hope to have taken a decision by November Those present were assured that the finance remained safe, and that Fife Council remains determined to build a first-class single-site secondary school in St Andrews as soon as possible. It may be possible to use money from the sale of the South St site to assist with inflation etc. Maintenance of the existing buildings will be funded. It looks as though the most likely option is a refurbishment and extension of the Kilrymont Road building. Fife Council have not been able to get Historic Scotland to de-list the current building. The earliest possible entry date is now looking like summer 2015.
Langlands site for the New Madras Ruled Out 30 August 2011
On the 29 August parents learnt from the Rector that the Langlands site for the New Madras was no longer a possibility. The intention is that Fife Council will now look at where else the New Madras may be built. A leading contender may be the Kilrymont Road site. Parents are to be invited to a meeting on 7 September to discuss the way forward.
St Andrews Citizen Comments on New Madras Negotiations – 29 April 2011
The local paper comments that Fife Council has agreed in principle aspects of the proposed new school, and that negotiations with the University of St Andrews continue.
News item on Fife Today website
Ongoing Council – University Negotiations are Welcomed – 15 April 2011
John Barnett, Chairman of Madras College Parent Council, has welcomed the news that negotiations between the Council and the University on a new school building at the North Haugh are progressing.
He said, “Whilst parents are understandably a little disappointed that final agreement between the parties has not been achieved at this week’s meeting, I am pleased that detailed discussions on a final settlement are continuing with a view to reconciling the outstanding issues within a short timetable.”
“Everyone understands that in order to fulfil the expectation of a spring 2014 opening date for the new Madras College, agreement between the parties on the co-located site is the critical first step prior to the subsequent stages of detailed design, planning, approval and eventual completion of the project.”
“I have always recognised that negotiations on such a significant collaborative project would not be simple, and we have been patient in our understanding of the difficulties faced by the parties. This whole process has produced a considerable momentum and expectation that a successful outcome will ultimately be produced. Today, in view of the evident goodwill demonstrated by the University and the Council to deliver on this important initiative of value to all the people of St Andrews and the surrounding community, I remain optimistic that we will see a positive outcome before too long.”
Parents Urge Faster Progress on New Madras College – 22 February 2011
The following comments from the Chair of the Parent Council were published in the Courier Newspaper in February:-
“Parents are becoming increasingly concerned about the slow progress being made towards delivering a new building for Madras College” says John Barnett, chairman of the Parent Council.
“In order for the timetable of a spring 2014 opening to be achieved, I would have expected there to have been agreement by now on the exact location of the new single site. The continuing delay and absence of any information on the status of the negotiations is causing some anxiety and speculation among parents and others in the community.
Whilst I understand that important and sensitive issues relating to the proposed site must be properly discussed and agreed between Fife Council and the University of St Andrews, the negotiating process is taking far longer than many people had anticipated.
The statutory public consultation has now been concluded and a report on the outcome is expected imminently from HMIe. I would be very surprised if the published result reflected anything less than a large majority in favour of the proposal to build the new single-site school on the suggested site on the North Haugh on land owned by the University. There exists a high level of expectation among parents and children throughout the Madras College catchment area that the detailed planning for the new school on that single site should commence soon. Co-location on the University campus has the added advantage of facilitating the development of closer academic and educational links between the two institutions.
In the meantime, although I am pleased that the toilet facilities are to be improved, both existing school premises continue to deteriorate. Teachers having to travel between the two sites results in significantly reduced pupil contact time. These negative factors are to the continued detriment of the educational provision offered to local children, as successive HMIe reports have made clear.”
On behalf of the parents and pupils of Madras College, I have therefore called upon the negotiating teams of the University and Fife Council to move towards reaching final agreement on the favoured North Haugh site as soon as possible. With the goodwill that I know exists on both sides, I have no doubt that agreement can be reached in the near future on how this exciting and unique project can be achieved in the best interests of all the stakeholders.
I would hope to be able to offer some encouraging news to the parents and teachers at the next meeting of the Parent Council on 9 March when a report on the current status of this project will be presented.”
Consultation on the New Madras, 15 December 2010
Interested people are invited to read the consultation paper on the proposed New Madras and to respond to the consultation by clicking here.
The Parent Council has put in its response.
Local Development Group Meeting 2 November 2010
It was reported that a team of architects has been appointed, and a timetable for planning and similar consultations has been outlined. Minutes.
Open Meeting 23 September 2010
The Rector sends a letter to parents outlining the current state of planning, and noting the planned date of entry moving to Spring 2014.
Parent Council AGM September 2010
The Rector gave an update to parents, as can be seen in the draft minutes of the AGM.
Open Meeting 8 March 2010
The Rector presented to the meeting the “story so far”, and highlighted the various advantages to be had with the proposed site on the North Haugh with access off the A91. The text below is the webmaster’s summary of the main points, and should not be taken as the official record of the meeting.
The number of pupils expected over the next decade or so is estimated to be between 1400 and 1500, though with a School designed to operate at 80% of capacity that means that the School will be specified for 1700 pupil places maximum. A split of the current school between St Andrews and the Tay Bridgehead had been considered, but it was determined that the range of subjects that could be taught in the smaller schools would be much less than currently taught at Madras – the subjects that would have been at risk are shown in red in the slides that can be accessed via the link below. The range of extra-curricular activities would also be affected. A public meeting in the Bridgehead area about this was in favour of the single school solution.
When looking for a site for the New Madras in St Andrews various sites were considered. The slides below show first a possible site next to the A91, then the Langlands A site that is up the escarpment, then the preferred Langlands B site, which is immediately adjacent to the University’s Sports Centre. The University Sports Centre would be expanded and upgraded if these proposals go ahead, with the possibility of a direct link between the two buildings. There is up to £50 million to build the New Madras, with up to £40 million to come from the Council and £10 million from the University’s part. A business case for the new school should be taken to the Education and Children’s Services committee on 8 April 2010. There should then be wide consultation in May 2010, followed by planning applications. The hope is that construction should start in June 2011 for delivery of the building in 2013. The University and the school and Council are working closely together. The University would provide the space near their sports centre and would gain the 1833 part of the school’s South St building. The Council would retain the southern part of the South St site, as well a the Kilrymont Road site. Although the school and University would have an agreement on shared use of sports and other facilities near the new school, Station Park playing fields would be retained.
- Copy of PowerPoint slides (1.4 MB file)
Mr Jones then fielded many questions from the audience. His presentation and answers appeared to be well received by those present. In answers to questions he noted amongst other things the following:-
- the intention was still to use Station Park playing fields for sports to some extent
- the internal design of the School was to be developed in consultation with pupils, with Mr Jones favouring the sort of construction seen at Corby City Academy
Corby Business Academy
- amongst designs being considered was the possibility of three wings to fit in with the three school houses. It may be than many classrooms will have glazed walls between them and wider corridors with breakout spaces. Some classrooms may have moveable acoustic walls to permit more flexible use of space. The arts section may be open plan.
- there could still be separation between pupil and student use of shared facilities
- the country’s financial issues were not expected to affect the capital spend by Fife Council on the New Madras.
- the building of the New Madras is not linked to proposals for a western expansion of St Andrews.
Update Document from Fife Council – Public Meeting
- Fife Council document reviewing current status of plans
St Andrews Community Council Meeting Feb 2010
Link to minutes from this meeting, which included a presentation and discussion with Mr A Paul and Mr J McLaughlin of Fife Council about the New Madras.
26 January 2010 – Local Development Group Meeting
December 2009 updates
December statement from Fife Council to interested parties updating us on the current state of the proposals.
Fife Council has now issued a press release about an agreement with the University of St Andrews about the way in which a New Madras should be built to the West of the University’s Sports Centre. An associated framework of items to be agreed between the University and the Council was published for the 3 December meeting of Fife Council’s Policy, Finance, and Asset Management Committee.
A number of important aspects of the proposed New Madras were discussed at the Fife Council Policy, Finance, and Asset Management Committee on 3 December:-
Education and Children’s Services Committee of 12th November, 2009
This looks like the big meeting for decisions on the New Madras.
We understand that a New Madras on a site to the West of the University’s Sports Centre is now the proposed way forward.
Madras College Progress Update
The local stakeholders’ group asked that an overview briefing document should be put together by Education Services since many parents in the area were unaware of even the most basic facts about site options.
Overview document from Fife Council, 26 October 2009
Parent Forum AGM
The Chair’s presentation included a summary of recent history of the discussions about the New Madras. The meeting was told that Fife Council were considering the two options that were left, which are
i) A refurbishment and extension of the Kilrymont Site Building
ii) A new build School in collaboration with the University near the University Sports Centre
The meeting of about 60 people voted to show their preference. Every vote that was cast was for the new build school on the western edge of St Andrews
Stakeholders Group Meeting 15 September 2009
inc Report of the Madras College Co-location Working Group
- Report of the Madras College Co-location Working Group
Courier Article on School Plans discussed at St Andrews Community Council
Letter from Outgoing Chiair of the Madras Parent Council
- Letter from Outgoing Chair of the Parent Council to all parents and carers
Courier Articles on Surprising Developments regarding selection of site for the New Madras
Fife Council Design Brief
Design Brief from Fiife Council, received by webmaster 21 August 2009
Memo from Fife Council 12 August 2009
“At the meeting of the Local Development Group held on 4th August it was indicated that further information was required and it was unlikely that a decision would made by the Education and Children’s Services Committee at its meeting of 20th August 2009 on whether to invest in a new build school in St Andrews West or in the renewal and extension of Kilrymont. I am writing to let you know that an update report will be considered by that Committee on 20th August 2009.
It is considered that further site assessments and discussions should take place in relation to the new build option before the business case is presented to the Committee for a decision on which option to pursue and that in the meantime both a new build school at a site in St Andrews West and the renewal and extension of Kilrymont continue to be developed. In order to ensure delivery of the school by June 2013, a report on the outcome of those further investigations and discussions will be submitted to the Education and Children’s Services Committee at the meeting scheduled for 12th November 2009. In the meantime it has been recommended that the Policy, Finance and Asset Management Committee be asked at the meeting scheduled for 10th September, to approve capital funding of a maximum of £40m to implement the project.
An update will be provided to the Group at the meeting scheduled for 15th September.
Corporate Asset Management Service
Stakeholders Group Meeting and Parent Council Meeting 6 May 2009
Summary of minutes from our representative before the official draft minutes (above) were distributed:-
The Rector reported that he and others had seen some new school buildings. He was impressed with Corby Business Academy, with buildings that contained useful features and which may have been built at a cost that could be met by the Fife budget. He had also seen Thomas Deacon Academy, which was very impressive, but which cost some £84 million, and so was outwith the budget for the new Madras, which is around £30 million. Glass walls between rooms and corridors looked interesting in the way that they allowed everyone to be in better view. Good quality facilities encouraged people to look after them. The standard of facilities for pupils should be every bit as good as for the adults in the building.
Andy Primmer is the Parent Representative from our Parent Council on the Stakeholder Group. He reported that Fife Council was currently evaluating the business case for various different options for the new Madras. Consultations had taken place with school staff and some pupils. A swimming pool was not included in any option due to the large capital and running costs. A possible future solution with a community use swimming pool adjacent to the School may yet be an option. A further meeting of stakeholders is to be held on 28 May. The final decision on the New Madras is expected at the August meeting of the Education and Children’s Services Committee. Various briefing papers had been made available to the Stakeholder Group at or after this meeting, and these are made available below as pdf files.
- Remit and membership of the Stakeholders Group
- Explanation of Cost-Benefit Analysis process
- Indicative Ten-Year Plan for Refurbishment/New Build of Schools (Appendix 1)
- Example Cost-Benefit Analysis for Greyfriars School (Appendix 2)
- Business Case Key Tasks (Appendix 3)
- Business Case Benefit Criteria List for Madras
- Ratings of Madras as currently
- Pre-development Suitability Evaluation for Madras
Fife Council has provided web pages with information on the planning and design process for the new schools.
Open Meeting 26 March 2009
Fife Council held an open meeting at the School on 26 March. The Council’s plans were presented, and attendees were able to ask questions of the Council’s representatives. At this meeting there was also an attempt to determine who would be the representatives of the local community and feeder primary parent councils on the stakeholders group. The Madras Parent Council is represented on this Group by Andy Primmer.
An initial assessment of possible sites for the single-site school should be made by the end of April 2009. Current sites under consideration include the Kilrymont Road and South Street sites, as well as new-build sites in the town. Other items being considered should be decided upon by the end of June. The target is for the relevant Fife Council committees to choose the preferred site option at their August meeting. The aim is to start construction in September 2010. The indicative price for the New Madras is 30 million pounds.
- School Estate Development Programme – Morag Wallace – slides used in presentation – pdf
- Communication Activities – Senga Hogg – slides used in presentation – pdf
- Report in the St Andrews Citizen Newspaper 27 March 2009
Some Relevant Minutes and Briefing Notes from Fife Council
- August 2008
- December 2008
- March 2009 Briefing Note